Tim Kotzman on Bitcoin Treasuries & The Strategic Reserve
DOWNLOAD YOUR COPY OF THE BITCOIN-FOR-BUSINESS QUICK START GUIDE
This free, 27-page resource includes:
- Six ways ANY business can benefit from Bitcoin
- Some of the best Bitcoin-only businesses to partner with
- Key Bitcoin concepts for people getting started
Tim Kotzman is the host of The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast, where he interviews top names and companies in the Bitcoin and MicroStrategy ecosystem. A key contributor to MSTR True North, Tim provides insights on corporate Bitcoin strategies and treasury management. With over 12 years in energy, land, and mineral acquisitions—overseeing $200M in deals—he brings deep financial expertise to Bitcoin-focused investments. As a founder of multiple energy-focused private equity firms, Tim is actively acquiring Bitcoin, minerals, and royalties across the galaxy.
🌐 CONNECT WITH TIM
- 𝕏 X: @TimKotzman on X
- 📺 YouTube: Tim on YouTube
🌐 CONNECT WITH JOSH
- 𝕏 X:@joshuafriedeman
- 🔗 LinkedIn:@joshuafriedeman
- 📺 YouTube:@joshuafriedeman
TAKEAWAYS
- The podcast discusses the intricacies of Bitcoin, emphasizing the importance of understanding its foundational aspects before exploring derivatives such as equities and options.
- Listeners are cautioned about the considerable risks associated with trading Bitcoin, where potential returns could be substantial but at the cost of heightened volatility and uncertainty.
- Insights from the Bitcoin Investor Week reveal a growing interest among private companies to adopt Bitcoin as a treasury asset, signaling a shift in corporate finance strategies.
- The episode highlights the potential for the U.S. government to strategically acquire Bitcoin, which could influence market dynamics and investor confidence moving forward.
- Tim Kotzman's journey into the Bitcoin space illustrates the value of community and personal connections in understanding and leveraging cryptocurrencies effectively.
- The conversation underscores the necessity for investors to conduct thorough research and be mindful of the inherent risks of public equities versus the perceived stability of Bitcoin as a long-term hold.
SHOW PARTNERS
Mentioned in this episode:
Strong Wealth: Wealth Management for Bitcoiners, by Bitcoiners
Velas Commerce: Biz Tech Meets Bitcoin
DOWNLOAD YOUR COPY OF THE BITCOIN-FOR-BUSINESS QUICK START GUIDE
Transcript
How many people?
Speaker A:Starting from like the base, layer, like, understand bitcoin in any way, shape or form, and then layer on top of that, understand bitcoin equities, and then on top of that, bitcoin equity options.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You're like, so far out the risk curve, we're like, yeah, you can make 10, 20x on your money, but it's basically trading.
Speaker A:And if you're not familiar with it, might not be the best idea.
Speaker A:I think we'd all agree this administration, there's like the headline of the day, if not the headline of the hour, woke up this morning and there's like multiple accounts on X saying, hey, Lutnick said basically that the president's going to talk about the bitcoin strategic reserve on Friday.
Speaker A:Sailors invited some other executives that maybe are not into bitcoin, are not invited.
Speaker A:They could technically, through executive order, through the Exchange Stabilization act, buy up to $40 billion worth of Bitcoin and just say, like, oh, well, we already have a couple hundred thousand Bitcoin here.
Speaker A:We, we already bought it.
Speaker A:Until something actually gets through Congress, I don't know the market's really going to respond to it, like, in a sustainable way.
Speaker B:If you right now were in the Treasury Department and you could do what you think is best for the United States and what you think is best for the American people, how would you handle the strategic reserve?
Speaker B:Welcome to the Business Bitcoinization show, the show dedicated to helping you enrich your life and grow your business with bitcoin, the hardest money on planet earth.
Speaker B:I'm your host, Josh Friedman, and our guest today is Tim Kotsman, who you may recognize from either his Bitcoin Treasuries podcast or MSTR True North.
Speaker B:Today on the show, we're going to be talking about how companies are beginning to adopt Bitcoin as a Treasury reserve asset.
Speaker B:We're also going to be talking about last week's Bitcoin Investor Week in New York City and the upcoming Bitcoin Strategic Reserve.
Speaker B:We're going to get to our interview with Tim right after this.
Speaker B:Tim, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:So I like to start off every single interview with a few questions that help us to get to know you a little bit better and give us some insight for our own lives.
Speaker B:Are you ready for these?
Speaker A:I'm ready.
Speaker B:Question number one is this.
Speaker B:When and how did you first learn about bitcoin?
Speaker A: d about bitcoin in January of: Speaker A: unt of his net worth in early: Speaker A:And that personal story really gave me the curiosity and the enthusiasm to go down the rabbit hole.
Speaker B:Question number two.
Speaker B:What's an insight or fact about bitcoin that you wish everyone understood the scarcity of bitcoin?
Speaker A:Because I don't think we even understand the scarcity of bitcoin.
Speaker A:I think we're going to see more obvious signs and realities of it as we get into the next one to two cycles, maybe.
Speaker B:Question 3.
Speaker B:What's the Bitcoin resource that you must recommend to other people?
Speaker A:Any YouTube video that someone wants to watch and that is engaging for them.
Speaker A:Because everyone learns in so many different ways and different people or personalities might connect to whatever they connect with.
Speaker A:The best workout to do is the workout that you do.
Speaker A:The best YouTube video on Bitcoin to watch is the one that you'll actually watch that actually grabs your attention.
Speaker B:Now, it was your friend that sort of got you interested in bitcoin or at least helped to grab your attention at first.
Speaker B:So I'm wondering, what types of content on YouTube did you find most helpful in your early days of learning about bitcoin?
Speaker A:Really back then there were so fewer podcasts that it was really, for me, Robert Breedlove, Anthony Pompliano, British Hotel I mean, the whole get to one bitcoin sort of mantra, I was already kind of like, that was definitely my goal.
Speaker A:You know, one bitcoin and beyond.
Speaker A:But yeah, those were kind of the prevalent podcasts at the time.
Speaker B:I would, I would say question number four.
Speaker B:Beyond bitcoin, what's a resource, tool or idea that's been helpful to you or your work recently?
Speaker A:I'd say following certain accounts that actually consistently have alpha on social media and then not just their posts, but what they're commenting on and what they're reposting.
Speaker A:Because there's so much noise.
Speaker A:Like, back to the YouTube videos.
Speaker A:I mean, when I was carefully driving around many years ago, not many, four years ago, they were just trying to take a stab in the dark at a YouTube video.
Speaker A:And you put bitcoin in the subject line, but you get all of these to the moon meme, coin, altcoin, then I'm like, how do I even find this information?
Speaker A:So, yeah, really through trial and error.
Speaker A:And also someone has alpha.
Speaker A:Seeing what other accounts do they follow?
Speaker A:Some of the top accounts, like Michael Saylor, he's only following 600 people.
Speaker A:So you could wouldn't take that long to just go through that entire list and not necessarily follow all of them.
Speaker A:Some of them are government officials of other countries or whatever.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think that's, that's maybe a little bit of a hack.
Speaker B:So someone like Saylor obviously would be a top follow.
Speaker B:If you're a bitcoiner who's not yet on X, do you have you know, two or three what you would consider like blue chip follows on X, then maybe two or three others that you feel like, like are under followed considering the amount of alpha they're providing.
Speaker A: just being in the space since: Speaker A:And then David Bailey with his proximity to like he literally kind of coordinated orange pilling President Trump is an interesting follow.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think I, I'd leave it at that.
Speaker A:There's but British Hodl has a personality but is also.
Speaker A:So some people may or may not relate to him, but it seems that people comment pretty regularly on how on point a lot of his takes are.
Speaker A:So if you could find people that say something and then it happens.
Speaker A:I mean I was posting a few weeks ago about million dollar bitcoin by December of this year and I literally like quarter million views and 500 comments.
Speaker A:Most of the comments telling me how much of an idiot I am.
Speaker A:And then this morning the comments are like, Tim, you might be right.
Speaker A:So it's like no one's gonna be right all the time, but someone that's thoughtful and, and but, but is also saying things that are a little contrary, maybe not million or $2 million bitcoin, but I personally think all those things are in play.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Now we have our final, what we call our arbitrary but insightful question.
Speaker B:And it's this.
Speaker B:As a general life principle, is it better to ask why or why not?
Speaker A:I would say why because I'm at least 51% like an optimist and I think that's more constructive.
Speaker A:I think the education system kind of like beats the entrepreneurial spirit out of a lot of people.
Speaker A:And not that that's for everyone as far as that path in life, but you have a lot of smart people walking around that are just.
Speaker A:They have the intelligence but they don't have the enthusiasm or motivation or hope or anything in that realm, whatever name you want to put on it to actually go after what they're probably passionate about.
Speaker A:So I think asking why or more so just let's go just doing it, not being afraid to fail because you're going to learn something.
Speaker A:And I think that's what holds a lot of people back.
Speaker A:So I think why is a really powerful question.
Speaker B:Well, Tim, we're here today to talk about your work and your insight when it comes to Bitcoin treasuries.
Speaker B:Obviously, Saylor is the face of Bitcoin Treasuries, but in the past probably six months, you've really risen to the front as a voice and someone who's giving a voice to other people to share about how they're incorporating Bitcoin treasuries into their operations.
Speaker B:So if people don't know you, there's going to be this major contingent of people that are well aware of who you are, either from your podcast, Bitcoin Treasuries podcast, or from the MSTR2 north group, or just anything else your takes on Twitter.
Speaker B: mean, it could be from early: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: So: Speaker A:Really.
Speaker A:I mean, when one of my friends met Anthony, he was like, I've listened to every single one of your podcasts.
Speaker A:And Anthony's like, sorry you wasted your time.
Speaker A:Right, Very funny.
Speaker A:But it's like there wasn't, there weren't dozens of podcasts that were easily discoverable.
Speaker A:Maybe there were, but not that were easily discoverable back then.
Speaker A: So: Speaker A:My background is in the land acquisition side of oil and gas.
Speaker A:So acquiring oil and gas leases first in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area, Ohio, West Virginia, and then buying oil and gas rights, mineral and royalty rights.
Speaker A:The legal definition actually changes depending on which state you're in.
Speaker A:So that's why I say it kind of like that.
Speaker A:But buying it in those three states.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Natural gas kind of focused.
Speaker A:And then down in West Texas and Lee and Etikine, New Mexico, oil weighted buying minerals on behalf of a family office out of Dallas.
Speaker A: hat's my background from like: Speaker A:I was just like a contract consultant out in the field, going kitchen table to kitchen table, collecting these oil and gas leases for clients.
Speaker A:I was living in Pittsburgh, lived in Fort Worth for a year, moved up to New York and started raising money on my own to do the exact same thing.
Speaker A:I had been on the deal side.
Speaker A:So then to be on the capital side, raise money, buy deals, let them cash flow and then exit out of those.
Speaker A:And that's been a really great exercise.
Speaker A:So I can kind of get in that fund manager, general partner seat of like, what is a private placement, how do I raise money, how do I deploy the capital responsibly, issue the quarterly reports, do interface with legal and accounting.
Speaker A:You know, right now I need to, you know, send some emails to get the K1s out to the limited partners on time, which is March 15th of every year.
Speaker A:So, like just even just with a couple of closed ended funds, going through those mechanics and being able to speak that language and have a little bit of experience, I think has been a natural next step.
Speaker A:And then one of the limited partners that introduced me to bitcoin encouraged me to do a bitcoin just long term buy and hold fund.
Speaker A:So we did a close ended bitcoin fund, just buy and hold for eight to 10 years.
Speaker A:And we told people, you should study bitcoin, you should buy bitcoin on your own.
Speaker A:But the value prop here is are you going to actually hold it for eight to 10 years on your own?
Speaker A:So yeah, I think the fund bought it somewhere in the 30s.
Speaker A:So obviously that's going to be a great story over time.
Speaker A:And so I got connected through a series of events with the studio here in New York in Midtown east, and at the exact same time, coincidentally was introduced through a friend to kind of the cast of characters that are MSTR True north.
Speaker A:And so started doing interviews with Ryan and Punter Jeff and Ben Workman.
Speaker A:And I think it was certainly that moment in time when there was also price action where like I just uploaded the first video and thought, like the one I did with Ryan.
Speaker A:I thought, I'll probably do this one, I'll upload it.
Speaker A:No one's going to care.
Speaker A:I'm going to move on with my life.
Speaker A:Like, the plan was not to have a podcast.
Speaker A:So that's kind of ironic at this point.
Speaker A:But yeah, that was kind of the journey for the podcast.
Speaker A:And then as I continued meeting people and putting out episodes and talking with like bitcoin, only bitcoin focused companies that I could work with, whether it's a sponsorship or a partnership or both or whatever.
Speaker A:And right, that whole journey of like, how does that even work?
Speaker A:Right, got connected with the onramp guys and the Acropolis guys.
Speaker A:And the president and owner of Stamp Seed is actually my girlfriend's.
Speaker A:His wife is my girlfriend's best friend from 12 years old.
Speaker A:So very funny to just kind of get connected with all these people and see how we can work together.
Speaker A:And now, kind of a wild experience to sit here and from the podcast and other work that I'm doing, to just get emails from people in the US and internationally of like, hey, you're the Bitcoin treasury guy.
Speaker A:We want to do this for our company.
Speaker A:How do we do it?
Speaker A:And I'm like, being able to point them to reputable resources to help them is kind of a wild new reality.
Speaker B:So you've just gotten back from Bitcoin Investors Week.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear a little bit about that as well.
Speaker B:Maybe what were some of the takeaways as far as trends, especially things that you feel like going into it, you weren't thinking about as much.
Speaker B:Like, was there anything there that changed your perception or.
Speaker B:Yeah, just kind of some of those unique insights from the event.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think what is really unique about a lot of events is that if someone has only been to a larger event, right.
Speaker A:Where there's 5, 10, 15, 20,000 people, and you're kind of general admission and sitting in a huge, like, it's almost like a rock concert.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And it's like, up on stage next, Michael Saylor.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But when you're in, like, there was a conference last year in Santa Monica.
Speaker A:It was like an unconference.
Speaker A:So there's like, small groups kind of meeting in a circle, and there was a leader, but anybody could, like, ask a question, like, very intimate or even like Bitcoin Investor Week, there were a thousand people or less in the room.
Speaker A:So like, when, you know, the host said, hey, at the beginning of the conference, hey, when the speakers get off the stage, do not attack them right away.
Speaker A:Wait till they get to the back of the room and then attack them.
Speaker A:And if they need to leave, right, then let them leave.
Speaker A:But most, if not all of the speakers were very approachable on Friday, which is kind of the main investor day, with a lot of big names.
Speaker A:I think it was funny.
Speaker A:I was standing on the back wall, and Cathie Wood, with three people around her, is trying to get out the door.
Speaker A:And a couple people got a picture with her.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But others, like Scaramucci and others, they were there and they'll take pictures and talk to you and sign books or whatever.
Speaker A:So just that sort of intimate environment that might not be for Everyone.
Speaker A:But it's something that I don't think people would expect.
Speaker A:I'm just sitting in a random seat watching the talks, and every time Eric Semmler walks past me, he's like, hey, Tim, how's it going?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:It's just like, I don't think people would expect that, that you can just, like, sit next to someone that you've only ever.
Speaker A:That you think was like, you know, I think Semware is probably the most well known next to strategy and sailor.
Speaker A:So it's like, what?
Speaker A:I could just, like, say hi to this guy.
Speaker A:So I think that that aspect is, you know, for people that appreciate that, and I do, because from the beginning, it's like, I flew to El Salvador basically without telling anyone to, like, see if these are real people.
Speaker A:And like, okay, I met Ma, Max, I met Stacy, I met Robert.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I met Anthony.
Speaker A:And it's like, YouTube videos are great, but for me, that helped build my confidence by, like, actually meeting people.
Speaker A:So, I mean, the insights.
Speaker A:I had a gentleman come up to me and say, hey, here's my email.
Speaker A:I want to introduce myself.
Speaker A:I'm a private company.
Speaker A:We're going to flip public and put Bitcoin on our balance sheet.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker A:Like, this is happening and not all at once.
Speaker A:But I think that's probably the biggest takeaway is private companies and public companies looking toward a bitcoin treasury strategy.
Speaker A:And then a lot of lending announcements, like Arch Lending partnered with Onramp, and there's battery finance, and there's all of these companies that are ramping up from a lending perspective.
Speaker A:Even I don't know the details, but I think I heard somewhere Cantor Fitzgerald is going to come out with a $2 billion line for lending.
Speaker A:So I think that could be a really interesting, obviously, catalyst.
Speaker A:If people don't need to sell their Bitcoin, they can get a reasonable or more reasonable loan against it with more favorable terms than maybe in the past with hopefully institutions that are more credible than ones in the past.
Speaker A:That's all very, very encouraging.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker B:So when it comes to the CEOs you've interviewed who are beginning to or either currently or looking to adopt Bitcoin as a Treasury asset, what, How.
Speaker B:How closely do they follow MicroStrategy versus kind of have unique things that they bring to the table, does that make sense?
Speaker B:Like, is it all just basically microstrategy, but at a smaller scale, doing that as much as possible, or do they have different approaches?
Speaker A:I think it depends on how aggressively they want to enter the capital markets, if it's just like putting 1% or 10% or something less than 100% of their cash on their balance sheet, then it's kind of okay, we're just going to buy Bitcoin.
Speaker A:But to the extent that they want to really engage with the capital markets and do the whole equity and debt sort of playbook, then I think it's, you know, there's really only one shiny example at the moment that's really at the forefront.
Speaker A:And so that's where.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think for good reason, it's like, well, this is the microstrategy now strategy playbook.
Speaker A:And yes, I think it just depends on it.
Speaker A:Like, are they.
Speaker A:Is it a small, is it an allocation or is it a levered, levered long or at least in that direction sort of allocation as to what, to what extent they're going to follow that specific playbook?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And what is the future for private companies?
Speaker B:It seems like they don't have as many levers to pull.
Speaker B:Is it simply just adding it as an asset and accumulating more as they can, or are there other levers that I'm not thinking of that private companies have easy access to?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think the, I think you're right.
Speaker A:I think the only lever as you get more lending options available might be traditional debt, which again is like a very.
Speaker A:All of these are individual investment decisions.
Speaker A:But especially we kind of saw with strategy that issuing equity and then taking traditional loans.
Speaker A:And of course this was under the previous administration and the price action wasn't wonderful.
Speaker A:So we might be in a whole new world now.
Speaker A:But maybe private companies would consider traditional debt financing, but hopefully very conservatively and carefully because that might not be the most, may not always be accretive.
Speaker B:I think a lot of bitcoiners are finding themselves in a place right now that they never expected, which is considering investing in public companies a whole lot more than maybe they previously thought they would.
Speaker B:You know, it's like Bitcoin only, but then all of a sudden they're looking at strategy similar meta planet, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker B:Do you have a way that you look at the balance between those two or maybe just some, some general categories of thinking, like do you kind of have your hodl stack?
Speaker B:And then MSTR and others are play money.
Speaker B:Do you look to rebalance or like at least providing some categories could be helpful to other people as they kind of figure out, do I want to just stay bitcoin only because that's the most safe and Secure.
Speaker B:And the thing that's least manipulable, do you have anything like that or are you just kind of feeling it out as you go?
Speaker A:So unfortunately, in life, a lot of everything is a journey and trial and error.
Speaker A:But to your point, yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:That's what I appreciate about the True north guys is on a lot of the episodes, or at least several episodes, they've point blank said, look, we own bitcoin and then we own microstrategy.
Speaker A:Now, strategy, that's super important, I think, just from communications and not credibility.
Speaker A:But yes, bitcoin is our savings account.
Speaker A:And I mean, I was just on the phone with one of the guys yesterday and I said, yeah, when it was running up, I was like, wow, this is amazing.
Speaker A:I'm just taking a certain amount of cash every day just off the table from those positions and putting it back in bitcoin as my savings account.
Speaker A:That's what I was individually doing.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I mean, I don't think it can be overstated that people should do their research and really take to heart that bitcoin is something that you can't f with.
Speaker A:It's something that's immutable.
Speaker A:It doesn't have a management team.
Speaker A:Any public equity, no matter how great that management team is, is susceptible to the world.
Speaker A:I mean, anybody can be accused of anything at any time.
Speaker A:Whether or not they did something wrong, they can make the wrong decision.
Speaker A:I mean, so you have that management risk with any public equity, let alone a private company.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like we're all human.
Speaker A:So for me, I'm like, I just look at myself and no one's perfect.
Speaker A:I'm not perfect.
Speaker A:So if you want your perfect savings account, that's bitcoin.
Speaker A:If you want to go further out on the risk curve and do your own research and then allocate to a bitcoin equity or a leverage bitcoin equity to just really be thoughtful about that allocation.
Speaker A:Because I think I'm as guilty as, maybe not as guilty as Gladiator, but we're all very enthusiastic about the research that we're doing and the allocations that we're making and the potential upside from all of this.
Speaker A:And I'll also just take the opportunity to say, also, in a private conversation yesterday, I just said what I think is obvious, but it's like we're all on a journey.
Speaker A:We're all going to make mistakes.
Speaker A:But think about it.
Speaker A:How many people, starting from the base layer, understand Bitcoin in any way, shape or form, understand Bitcoin?
Speaker A:And then layer on top of that, understand Bitcoin equities and then on top of that, bitcoin equity options, right?
Speaker A:You're so far out the risk curve, we're like, yeah, you can make 10, 20x on your money, but it's basically trading and if you're not familiar with it, might not be the best idea.
Speaker A:How do you learn something new unless you're doing like a pretend trading account, right?
Speaker A:Like a mock trading account like this.
Speaker A:So yeah, I think it's, it's exciting and for me from an educational standpoint, right, it's like I don't mind learning and messing up as long as I'm doing it with a small amount of capital and I'm learning something, right?
Speaker A:I'm not round tripping something and then round tripping it again.
Speaker A:That's not what you're supposed to be doing with bitcoin or anything else.
Speaker A:Just hold it maybe, you know, don't.
Speaker A:Unless like if you're.
Speaker A:Sailor has said this for years and years and years now, if you're a good trader, you know you're a good trader and if you don't know that you're a good trader, maybe just make an allocation to Bitcoin and forget about it, right?
Speaker A:So I think that, yeah, we can all take that to heart and probably be in a good or better spot because of it.
Speaker B:It's one of those things that I haven't had to worry about too much.
Speaker B:I happen to have a little bit of money sitting around back probably in April or May of last year, bought what's now 10 shares of Strategy, purchased some more in the fall.
Speaker B:But it isn't anything major.
Speaker B:But I think it's just really interesting because I think a lot of people probably came late to the game, sort of like I did or maybe even a little bit later when a crazy run of what's happening in the fall and it's just, it's just interesting because there's almost no doubt just so much upside for microstrategy.
Speaker B:But like you said, anything can happen.
Speaker B:I mean like, yeah, so it's, it's, it's just interesting to think about and I appreciate you sharing some of those thoughts.
Speaker B:Now another thing that you share with me right before hopping on, I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker B:You said X is blowing up this morning.
Speaker B:Apparently Howard Lutnick has said something about the bitcoin strategic reserve happening this Friday.
Speaker B:So right now we're recording this is Wednesday morning.
Speaker B:By Friday this could have all blown over and been a big Nothing Burger or, you know, we could have more information, but we're talking right now, don't know much.
Speaker B:What do you know so far and what are your thoughts on how things have unrolled since maybe last week?
Speaker B:And then what are your expectations or maybe thoughts on moving forward?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I think we'd all agree this administration, there's like the headline of the day, if not the headline of the hour.
Speaker A:So I woke up this morning and there's like multiple accounts on X saying, hey, Lutnick said basically that the president's going to talk about the bitcoin strategic reserve on Friday.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Saylor is invited.
Speaker A:Some other executives that maybe are not into bitcoin are not invited.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then you look at the price of bitcoin, it's just like rocket ship.
Speaker A:I mean, still below 100,000, but maybe going from the 80 thousands to the 90,000.
Speaker A:And Lutnick said somewhere in his quote that the other currencies or coins will be treated differently.
Speaker A:Positively, but differently.
Speaker A:So what does that all mean?
Speaker A:I don't know that any of us know, but I think it's interesting that there's a couple different buckets to go back to the buckets analogy that you could really put stuff into.
Speaker A:They could technically, through executive order, through the Exchange Stabilization act, buy up to $40 billion worth of Bitcoin and just say, like, oh, well, we already have a couple hundred thousand bitcoin here.
Speaker A:We already bought it.
Speaker A:Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't.
Speaker A:And then something could go through Congress where you have actual law for the bitcoin strategic reserve, you have the right.
Speaker A:And whether that's just keeping the bitcoin we have or adding to it, you would think you would be adding to it, at least ideally.
Speaker A:And then you have the sovereign wealth fund, which, if you listen carefully to Saylor's interview yesterday or earlier this week on cnbc, basically said, and this is just one gentleman's opinion, right?
Speaker A:But he said he feels like the strategic reserve is maybe for bitcoin and the sovereign wealth fund could have other assets in it.
Speaker A:So if I had to take a guess, I'd say that's probably where we're going.
Speaker A:But again, unless there's some huge announcement of them buying bitcoin and then announcing it at some point in time before Congress kind of gets their arms around it, I don't know how.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, if they announce something like wanting to push through Congress, no tax on bitcoin, which has been spiraling around social media, if you hold it for more than a year.
Speaker A:That would obviously be huge.
Speaker A:But until something actually gets through Congress, I don't know how much the market's really going to respond to it, like in a sustainable way.
Speaker A:But yeah, like I've posted a few times, like the most surprising or hilarious outcome might be the most likely outcome.
Speaker A:So like think about who's at the forefront of all this from a government perspective.
Speaker A:Trump and Elon like the meme doge master father.
Speaker A:Like so I think anything's possible but maybe those things are like a couple of the most likely scenarios.
Speaker B:Yeah, the no cap gains would be really helpful in the long term.
Speaker B: le they've been holding since: Speaker B:I can see that happening at first, but long term I feel like that would just be so beneficial.
Speaker B:Let me ask you this.
Speaker B:If you right now were in the Treasury Department and you could do what's best, best what, what you think is best for the United States and what you think is best for the American people, how would you handle the strategic reserve?
Speaker B:I mean I know there's, there's no one dictator, but just if you could, if you could kind of create the perfect scenario in your mind, what would that look like?
Speaker A:I mean I personally would be pretty aggressive.
Speaker A:I would deploy that 40 billion from the exchange stabilization fund pre announcement and say hey we did this.
Speaker A:We have whatever that math is, a couple hundred thousand coins in addition to what hopefully the government still has.
Speaker A:The US Government, hopefully they didn't sell it all.
Speaker A:And I mean that alone between what they have, right?
Speaker A:100, 200,000.
Speaker A:I don't have exact numbers.
Speaker A:And then you have, you bought another 1, 2, 300,000 with that 40 billion.
Speaker A:I mean that could be almost like similar to strategy stack.
Speaker A:And then with that sort of like aggressive action on the executive level, hopefully have the buy in to get something done in Congress.
Speaker A:But as soon as you make that announcement that you have a certain position, that's more than what people initially thought, right?
Speaker A:You're going to have that game theory from other nations and with the US dollar, I don't know that the government's really that I would hope that they're more focused on bitcoin as a strategic national security interest sort of aspect than the price because it's like well we have the US dollar, we'll just buy it at any price and then hold it.
Speaker A:So yeah, that would be my kind of course of action if I was there, which I'm not sure.
Speaker B: million is still in play for: Speaker A: million by the end of: Speaker A:So yeah, that's what I've said publicly and we're going to stick with it.
Speaker B:No cycle theory anymore.
Speaker B:We're just going to kind of blow past that and there's going to be that perpetual bid.
Speaker B:And that's what keeps the price rising.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:That's very bullish.
Speaker B:Any final thoughts before we finish up today?
Speaker B:Tim, I appreciate you sharing about Bitcoin Treasuries.
Speaker B:Obviously want people to check out your Bitcoin Treasuries podcast, but where'd you like people to go and how can they continue learning from you if they've enjoyed what they've heard today?
Speaker A:Yeah, Im Kotsman on X and YouTube we have the Bitcoin Treasuries podcast, as you mentioned, the True north live stream.
Speaker A:Punter Jeff streams that from the True North YouTube account every Wednesday evening.
Speaker A:And yeah, there's a couple things that I'm working on that'll be coming out soon that will be additional sort of media and podcast sort of platforms.
Speaker A:So I think stay tuned and yeah, really enjoy kind of being on this journey with everybody.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Well, Tim, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker B:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Well friends, it's a wrap.
Speaker B:Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Business Bitcoinization Show.
Speaker B:If you want to reach out to either me or Tim, you can find those links down in the show notes.
Speaker B:And be sure to check out Tim's Bitcoin Treasuries podcast.
Speaker B:As always, keep building, keep growing, and until next time, keep living and leading.
Speaker A:Well.
